As Taiwan's presidential elections are just a couple of 
weeks away, the world community is increasingly concerned 
about developments in the cross-strait relations. Prof Lee 
Yuan-tseh, a Nobel Prize laureate and President of Academia 
Sinica, Taiwan, told the island's China Times in a recent 
interview that, while China and Taiwan may differ in their 
arguments for "reunification" and "independence" 
respectively, they share one common concern: that they don't
want to be bullied by foreigners anymore. 

    I think whether the cross-strait relations can remain 
stable and peaceful is of utmost importance to Taiwan's 
developments......

　　Suppose you are visiting Beijing University. Ask the 
students whether they are willing to fight as soldiers in a 
war to take Taiwan back to China, and you will get a "Yes" 
from more than 90 percent of them. They believe 
reunification is currently the top priority for China. This 
I can well understand.

　　Just look at the history of modern China. The country 
had been oppressed by various foreign powers until the 1911 
Nationalist Revolution led by Dr Sun Yat-sen. Soon later, 
China underwent years of war against Japan's aggression. 
After the World War II, the socialist People's Republic of 
China was founded. Then came the Korean War and later the 
Vietnam War, in both of which China took an indirect part.

　　So I believe that, after suffering from foreign 
oppression for centuries, even having to concede part of 
their territory to foreign powers, the Chinese have a 
longing thirst for reunification of their country.

　　Their leaders of the older generation, and the 
education they receive, have always told them that blood is 
thicker than water and so the nation must be united or 
otherwise they will be bullied. .....

　　Understandably, to this day the Chinese still find it 
hard to get out of the shadow cast over by a long history of
oppression by foreigners. They always believe that Japan and
the United States are trying to seize Taiwan, that 
foreigners will come and bully them again. That's why they 
press for reunification. But they don't understand why 
people in Taiwan are not in favour of immediate 
reunification. 

　　The Taiwanese people have a lot of doubts when looking 
back at what you have gone through, I told the Mainlanders. 
At the beginning, some Taiwanese believed dearly in your 
socialist ideals, and some even got killed for their 
beliefs. Then, watching what happened in China later, they 
have seen the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, 
and the Tiananmen incident, and other things. Certainly, the
Taiwanese people will ask themselves: "Are we willing to go 
through all these ourselves?"

　　 Even high-level officials in China can't be sure of the
answer when they are asked the same question. If I ask what 
makes them believe that Taiwan must return to China 
immediately, I will get the usual answer that, otherwise, 
Japan and the US would come and take the island away.

　　I tell them that, after living in the US for 30-odd 
years myself, I know well how US policies are made, and so I
don't think the US will attempt to seize Taiwan. 

　　Then, they would say, "True, my sons now studying in 
the US say so, too. They say what we believe is untrue, 
just China's one-sided view."......

　　 I met Deng Xiaoping when I visited China in 1987. He 
invited me to a dinner in the Great Hall of the People. Deng
was an interesting person. He plunged straight into the 
issue the moment he saw me entering the hall. First, he 
asked, "Prof Lee, you grew up in Taiwan?"

　　"Yes," I answered. 

　　Then he asked, "Why does the Democratic Progressive 
Party want independence?"

　　So I told him what I understood to be the reasons. I 
told him about Taiwan's history, saying that the Taiwanese 
hated to be oppressed or bullied any more, and that they 
wanted to get rid of authoritarian rule. I also told him 
that, in reality, many of DPP's founding leaders used to 
share the ideals of socialism and fought for a just and 
reasonable society, and many of them had been thrown into 
prison for that.

　　Deng Xiaoping was a reasonable person. He listened to 
me quietly, with intense attention.

　　 "Prof Lee," he said, after hearing what I told him, "I 
think we have to leave this issue of Taiwan for our next 
generation to resolve." 

　　Some people argue that Taiwan must become independent, 
but China takes the idea as traitorous. In fact, as many 
people can see, some Taiwanese who want independence share 
one and the same thing with the Mainlanders who want 
reunification: they all refuse to be bullied. 

The mainlanders argue that only reunification can shield 
them from being bullied, whereas the Taiwanese maintain that
only independence can ensure that.

　　To me, herein lies the common ground shared by both 
sides of the Taiwan Strait. Isn't that a consensus between 
them?

　　People on both sides of the strait hate to be bullied 
once again. But the Mainlanders have a great misconception.
They believe that a unified China, or a united Chinese 
nation, is all it takes to keep them from being bullied. 
This is incorrect. 

　　A nation strives for unity for survival's sake when it 
is under foreign oppression. But neither the mainland nor 
Taiwan is now under foreign oppression. For the masses, the 
hope of happiness lies in reforms at various levels of 
society. ......

　　The Taiwanese people have had the sad and bitter 
experience of returning to the rule by their motherland. So,
when the topic of reunification with China is brought up, 
some would ask, "Must we go through that once again? Must we
have yet another sad and bitter experience like that?" In 
fact, that's the way many Taiwanese look on the issue. 
...... 

　　 War has absolutely no way to resolve the antagonism 
between the two sides. I think it is a gross mistake that 
we are spending so much money on weapons. 

　　We should communicate well with the mainland, having 
people there understand what we have gone through as well as
trying to understand what they think. Only with more mutual 
understanding can we co-exist in peace. 

The Mainlanders should respect the reality of two separate 
regimes that have evolved over history, and let us live on 
peacefully. 

　　Some day, perhaps in another 50 years, when conditions 
are ripe, it will be no big problem for us to join with the 
mainland China either loosely or closely in the Village of 
Earth, just as European countries join with each other in 
the European Union today. 

　　 Therefore, so far as the future cross-strait ties are 
concerned, if both sides keep on striving for a democratic 
society instead of seeking solution by armed forces, they 
will eventually merge into one. I believe that, if there can
be a wise statesman who would come forth and make efforts, 
difficulties will be overcome. 

(Translated by Allen Zhuang) 

李远哲谈两岸关系 

　　随着台湾总统选举越来越逼近，中台关系的发展走势也越来越备
受国际关注。台湾中央研究院院长李远哲教授最近接受台湾《中国时
报》访问谈及两岸关系时指出，中国要统一，台湾要独立，“说法”
虽不同，实际上“想法”是一致的，那就是大家都不愿、也不要再被
欺负。

　　我想两岸关系是不是能够维持安定与和平，对台湾的发展是非常
重要的。……

　　目前你如果到北京大学，问他们的学生，为要解放台湾，你愿意
参军，你愿意当兵吗？90％以上的都说愿意。他们把中国的统一当作
目前最重要的事，这一点我是可以了解的。

　　你看中国的这段历史，受列强的压迫，后来经过孙中山先生的国
民革命，之后马上就跟日本人打仗打了这么久；二次大战以后，中国
成立社会主义的人民共和国，之后又是韩战，后来越南战争，中国间
接地也参与了。

　　在他们的心里面，我想几百年来受了压迫与国土的割让，对国家
领土有统一的渴望。

　　在他们老一辈的领导阶层，或者在他们的教育里，他们都说，血
浓于水，整个民族要大团结，不然的话会被人家欺负。……

　　我可以了解的是，在他们历史发展的过程中，还是不能摆脱外来
的压迫留下的阴影，他们总觉得日本和美国要把台湾拿走，外国人一
定会欺负我们，所以他们要统一。他们不了解，台湾的居民为什么不
赞成马上统一呢？

　　我告诉他们，台湾人看到你们走过的历史是有很多疑虑的。刚开
始，台湾人对你们社会主义的理想，有些人很赞同，有些人也为此被
枪毙，但是如果再看之后的历史，经过大跃进，经过文化大革命、天
安门广场等事情之后，台湾的老百姓一定会问，难道我们也愿意走这
么一段路吗？

　　如果把这个问题拿去问大陆的很多大官，他们也不是那么确定。
如果我问台湾为什么马上要跟你们在一起呢？他们经常说，如果不早
些在一起，日本和美国要把台湾拿走。我说我在美国生活了30多年，
我也了解美国的一些政策的形成，我想美国不会把台湾拿走的。

　　他们就说，是啊！我的儿子在美国留学，他们也这么说，说我们
这样想是不对的。这是从大陆的观点看来。……

　　1987年的时候，有一次我到中国大陆，我有和邓小平见过面，他
请我在人民大会堂吃饭。邓小平很有趣，他一看到我走进来，就开门
见山地问我，他说，李教授，你在台湾长大的？我说是啊，他就说，
民进党为什么要独立？

　　我就说，据我的了解是如何如何的，我就把台湾过去的历史告诉
他，说台湾的老百姓不愿意再受压迫，也不愿意再受欺负，威权统治
一定要赶走；其实很多民进党的大老，以前都是有些社会主义思想，
追求公平合理的社会，很多以前都被关过。

　　其实邓小平是相当不错的人，他静静地听我讲，非常专注地听我
说……他听完我讲的这一些话之后，他说，李教授，我看台湾的这个
问题，我们要留给下一代的人去解决。

　　有人说台湾要独立，大陆人说这是卖国，很多人也知道，在台湾
的有些人主张独立跟大陆人说统一的想法其实是一样的，都是不愿再
被欺负。大陆人说统一才不会被欺负，台湾人说独立才不会被欺负，
从这个观点来看，我觉得其实这不就是海峡两岸共同的地方吗？这不
就是共识吗？

　　海峡两岸的人都不愿意再被欺负，但是他们（指中国大陆）有一
个观念上很大的误解，就是中国的统一、祖国的统一，就可以不被欺
负，这观念是不对的。在外族的压迫下，民族的团结是为了求生存，
但在目前大陆与台湾并没受外来的压迫，对一个老百姓说他们幸福的
指望是在社会各个层面的改革。……

　　台湾的老百姓经过过去回归祖国的惨痛经验后，有人讲到两岸的
统一时就说，我们还要经过一次吗？还要经过一次惨痛的经验吗？很
多台湾人确实是有这个想法。……

　　战争绝不能解决两岸的对立，我觉得我们花那么多的钱在武器上
是非常错误的。如果我们跟大陆好好地交流，使大陆的老百姓了解我
们走的路，也了解一下他们怎么想，彼此有些了解，我们才能和平地
共存下去。

　　历史留下的两个主权的独立，他们应该尊重，让我们好好的走下
去；有一天，也许50年之后，如果条件成熟，我们在地球村里面，像
欧盟一样，我们和中国大陆松松或紧紧地结合在一起，那也不会是什
么太大的问题。

　　所以，关于海峡两岸未来的关系，如果两岸都追求民主的社会，
是会融合在一起，而不是武力解决，我相信一位有智慧的政治家，能
出面好好努力的话，应该能克服困难。（摘录自《中国时报》）

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